Hour rule (nearly)

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 01/10/2015 at 04:48 • Filed to: Ford of France

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kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 06:17

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Too bad these didn't sell well here. In our car gatherings these still appear but still not very often.

After the production was ended in Europe they continued in Brazil. Really interestingly they even modified the flathead engine into an OHV engine. The Brazilian Simcas looked pretty weird but still not totally horrible. I wish one would be imported to Finland.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/10/2015 at 08:28

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Interestingly the one in my picture is 1958 so it's from the period after Ford sold out to Simca. Simca kept the Ford name for markets where the Simca name was little known, Sweden being one of them.

Top trivia: the Vedette was one of the last cars to be available with a Cotal gearbox. There's a video on you tube showing one in use.

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 09:19

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Oh! I didn't know that Simca/Ford used Cotal boxes. Awesome! They are pretty interesting devices. I guess it was pretty expensive option. I would really love to test drive one.

I'm going to Rétromobile in the next month and I have been thinking about offering something for a car with a Wilson box that will be auctioned there. I wonder if that could be huge mistake...

I think we got the Vedette with fins both as Ford and Simca. Probably the transition was done on some certain year.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/10/2015 at 10:13

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Yes, the Cotal was very expensive. Peugeot used it on the 402 where it was a high proportion of the price of the car and so it wasn't a common option. I think they were fragile and troublesome as well. I once Googled a Cotal Vedette and saw one for sale in Switzerland for I think about €15,000.

You can buy Wilson equipped cars for quite low prices - £6,000 or £7,000 in the UK. They are said to be fairly robust and reliable if maintained properly.

Trivia: the Wilson evolved into the Pneumocyclic which was found on buses until quite recently.

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 10:26

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I think that the worst weakness with the Cotal is that the system is electromechanical and the electrical system in the cars weren't very reliable to begin with. And unlike the Wilson system the Cotal isn't pre-selector system and it also operates the clutch.

I think that Wilson system was even used in trains.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/10/2015 at 11:58

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Yes, a ninety-odd year old design using electricity was never destined to be reliable!

I've been in buses with the Pneumocyclic box, a descendant of the Wilson. Not a very satisfactory system as it was prone to driver abuse. One is supposed to lift the accelerator during gear changes but many didn't resulting in jerks and a reduced life.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/10/2015 at 14:55

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Compare and contrast:

Cotal "moutardiere" gear lever from a Delahaye:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire with Wilson preselector:

ptak appreciates old racecars > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 15:40

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+1 for originality.

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 16:21

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Armstrong Siddeley with LHD steering? Those can't be very common. I saw one from 50's in the last summer here in Finland.

Here's a Talbot Lago with a bit more boring looking Wilson selector. "The mustard pots" are much cooler looking.

Cé hé sin > kanadanmajava1 01/10/2015 at 17:43

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You'd be surprised how many they sold in LHD. There's an active owners club in the Netherlands here

Note that the Cotal moutardier in the Delahaye has a reversed gate and no reverse. Separate reverse lever so 4F/4R!

I'm guessing too that the simple mechanical lever was a lot more reliable...

kanadanmajava1 > Cé hé sin 01/10/2015 at 18:48

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I didn't realize that the pattern was reversed but I did know about "the direction shifter". Probably the neutral position is also selected with that.